Sound vs. Venue

So rather than the usual posting about bands and upcoming album releases, I felt I wanted to stay away from the norm today and focus on the art of music rather than the music itself.  I was going through my usual subscriptions on YouTube and such when I came across a TED Talks video featuring David Byrne.  For those not aware of who this is, David has been an active musician since approx 1974 and was a founding member of the American new wave band Talking Heads.  David's credentials stretch over 35+ years and has had many notable awards such as Grammy, Oscar and Golden Globe nominations, not to mention his induction into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.

OK, now that the speaker is covered, time to focus on what David is discussing...music venues.

"As his career grew, David Byrne went from playing CBGB to Carnegie Hall. He asks: Does the venue make the music? From outdoor drumming to Wagnerian operas to arena rock, he explores how context has pushed musical innovation."


It got me thinking about the venues I frequent in Toronto/GTA and how they affect the bands/musicians that perform there.  Do these venues actually make the band sound better/worse?  Does the capacity and the dynamics of crowd interaction affect the sound/performance?  How many different variables can make or break a good concert?  I attempt to use a few examples of venues and take into account their structure, dynamics, materials, sound systems and such (so chances are, this article will be ongoing and added to as I gather more information)

*Keep in mind that I am not a sound/audio technician and some opinions are a collective conclusion (based upon my years in the industry) of what I feel plays/doesn't play a factor in the ultimate goal, which is final product.*

"So the nature of the room meant that words could be understood. The lyrics of the songs could be pretty much understood. The sound system was kind of decent. And there wasn't a lot of reverberation in the room. So the rhythms could be pretty intact too, pretty concise. Other places around the country had similar rooms. This is Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville. The music was in some ways different, but in structure and form, very much the same. The clientele behavior was very much the same too. And so the bands at Tootsie's or at CBGB's had to play loud enough -- the volume had to be loud enough to overcome people falling down, shouting out and doing whatever else they were doing." -Byrne

Lets dive into an example such as the Sound Academy (kudos to them for providing much of the venue info right on their website)

MAIN PA:
16 Clair, I-3 Line Array Loudspeakers
2 Clair, P-2 Balcony Fill Loudspeakers
4 Clair, P-2 Delay Fill Loudspeakers
12 Clair, Prism Sub Loudspeakers, Dual 18”
4 Chain Master, 1 Ton Motors
4 Lake, System Processors with Wireless Tablet Control
4 Clair Brothers, I-3 Amplifier Racks

MONITOR SYSTEM:
1 Digidesign Venue SC-48
10 FireHouse Stage Monitors (Biamped)
1 Clair Brothers, ML-18 Drum Sub Monitor
2 Clair Brothers, R-4 Series III Side Fill Monitors w/ ML18 subs
3 Clair Brothers, Crown 3600 Monitor I/O Amplifier Racks

MAIN SNAKE:
1 200’ NC-40 Main Snake – 40 Channel Microphone Snake with 3 Way Split
1 200’ NC-14 Return Snake – 14 Channel Return Snake
1 200’ 30Amp Hubbell to Quad – FOH Power

POWER:
1 200Amp, Three Phase, 120/208V – Audio – Stage Right
1 400Amp, Three Phase, 120/208V – Lighting – Stage Right
3 40Amp, Stove Plugs – Bus Power

Now it's almost a given that this venue has the most up to date sound and that this amount of power wouldn't be available 15/20 years ago, so we can already assume that the actual equipment itself assists with the increased sound dynamics of the venue.  If we look at the actual location of the stage in the venue, you can see that the speakers have been strategically placed in certain areas on stage right and left, as well as additional speakers approximately 1/2 way down the venue (see below) for additional help when there is a 3,000+ sold out crowd.  This allows for various levels to distribute the sound to those directly in front of the stage, to the side, balconies and those folks that just want to hang by the bar in the back.  Next time you are in these venues, you'll see what I am talking about.

Even so with the sound setup for The Opera House:

"The original Opera House (opened in 1909) structure was built as a Vaudeville theatre. During the late 1800’s Vaudeville was developed as the first mass market entertainment, highly organized revolving shows that combined the spectacle of the circus with the more common class entertainment of bars and pubs. The idea was to entertain the emerging middle class who had developed both disposable income and leisure time. By its very nature Vaudeville was a grind industry as most of the theatres were pumping out 5 full-length shows a day, all day long.

As it is today, Toronto of the late 1800’s was considered an important stop on entertainment circuit and at the height of the Vaudeville era Toronto boasted over 50 theatres, large and small, to prove it. Unfortunately, a much cheaper and easier to distribute entertainment became all the rage and as the Hollywood Machine cranked out movies and the economy ground to halt most of the beautiful Vaudeville buildings were converted to movie houses." -The Opera House

(Alice In Chains @ The Opera House, September 15th, 2009)

As you can see from the history of this venue, it was originally inspired for live/vaudeville performance, hence the extremely higher walls than other venues and the 35 foot arch allowed for maximum acoustics before the invention and social use of microphones.  Now this venue at a full 850 person capacity sounds much more different than when playing to an empty venue (as most of you would respond with "DUH!").  I tend to notice it more here than at other venues simply because of the original concept of the venue versus it's modern day use.  The one flaw I find with a venue with uber high walls such as The Opera House is the amount of sound barriers on the walls, which they have little to none.  This allows the music itself to bounce back and forth and reverberate, even at full capacity.  Versus looking at a venue such as The Virgin Mobile MOD Club, we see that they have a shorter ceiling height, but have managed to place decorations and objects on the walls to soak up some of that excess reverb. Other notable vaudeville venues such as the Winter Garden/Elgin Theatre have incorporated both height, size and wall acoustics.

(Winter Garden Theatre)

(Elgin Theatre)

"So I asked myself: Do I write stuff for specific rooms? Do I have a place, a venue, in mind when I write? Is that a kind of model for creativity? Do we all make things with a venue, a context, in mind?" -Byrne

Now does a long, narrow venue necessarily mean good sound?  What about a wide set such as the Kool Haus?  Here is where the opinions come into play here, rather than just pure fact.  Kool Haus does have a wider range for viewers to get closer to the stage, but it necessarily mean the sound will be reverberating the same as a venue that is longer and more narrow?  A fair amount of variables taken into consideration every time you set foot into a venue.  You as the concert goer may not necessarily notice these things right off the bat, but they all play a part in how you come to your ultimate conclusion of how good the band/musician performed.

"This is the opera house that Wagner built for himself.

And the size of the room is not that big. It's smaller than this. But Wagner made an innovation. He wanted a bigger band. He wanted a little more bombast, so he increased the size of the orchestra pit so he could get more low-end instruments in there." -Byrne

So even at an early stage of amplified music, you can see the dynamics of the venue starting to change.  In order for Wagner to incorporate his low end style of music, he did not need to increase seating capacity, the ceiling height of the range of sound.  He needed to increase the pit for the orchestra.  Much like a modern say stage, the venue setup needed to change so that the instruments could be used.  Can you imagine something like the Trans Siberian Orchestra, Rammstein or Slipknot performing on a stage such as the Opera House (45' Wide x 22' Deep x 4.5' High [Width inside proscenium 26'] Fly Gallery 50' to ceiling - 40' to grid)?  This is also where the band members and instruments play a factor is the venue and sound.

For all intensive purposes, I have divided some of my frequented venues into three categories: The Good, The Better and The Elites.  Now this part is all geared towards my personal experience of these venues and taking into account the structure of the venue, the sound setup/layout, the musician performing (how many members/instruments), the genre of music and the crowd capacity.  If you want to give you own opinions, add more venues or not necessarily agree with my placement of these venues, then be sure to drop a comment and we can keep the conversation going...

The Good:
- The Rivoli
- The Reverb/Big Bop (R.I.P.)
- The Wrongbar
- The Rock Pile
- Rogers Centre/Skydome
- Bovine Sex Club
- Velvet Underground
- Yonge/Dundas Square

The Better:
- The Opera House
- The Sound Academy
- The Phoenix Nightclub
- Lee's Palace
- Horseshoe Tavern
- Berkeley Church
- Echo Beach
- Air Canada Centre
- The Annex Wreckroom
- Copps Coliseum
- Molson Amphitheatre
- The Guvernment
- The Rex
- Ricoh Coliseum

The Elites:
- The Virgin Mobile MOD Club
- Hard Rock Cafe (upper concert venue)
- Queen Elizabeth Theatre
- Roy Thompson Hall
- Massey Hall
- Sony Centre For Performing Arts
- Masonic Temple

And as always, I like others to get in on this partial opinion piece and what they feel is the best and why...

- "The Opera House and The Annex Wreckroom.  The Annex Wreckroom has a cool layout, great atmosphere and a beastly little PA.  The Opera House is like a bigger version of The Wreckroom in that regard... whereas I find the Wreckroom cozy and atmospheric.  I still find The Opera House somewhat comforting with a really cool layout." -Quigs

- "Lee's Palace - with the elevated stage there is not a bad sightline in the small shoe box that can barely keep a lid on!" -John F.

- "The Opera House.  It's very raw.  Being that it's a smaller venue in Toronto, it tends to have a more intimate sound." -Nicole G.

- "Molson Amphitheatre-  I've always enjoyed going to shows at this venue for a few reasons.  first and foremost it is probably one of the best sounding venues I've been to.  I've sat sections 201, 202, 203, as well as been on the floor and on the lawn, and every time the sound was amazing.  The other thing I really enjoy is the ability to see the stage pretty much where ever you are in the Venue, and if for some reason you can't see the stage (which does happen depending how how tall the person in front of you is), there is always the 2 Big TV Screens that they have so you can see.  I've been to the Molson more times then I can count, and too this day it is still one of my favorite Venues to go to, as I've never been disappointed with the Sound from any band while seeing a show there.  Additionally since the stage is much larger, it does allow for Pryo, which many bands take advantage us during their performances.  While a concert should always be about the music, it is also about the experience, and I've found that any band who headlines at the Molson, always puts an amazing show and I'm never disappointed.

The Opera House-  Since it was originally built as a cinema and later a Live Theater House, this venue was made to have sound carry correctly, and even after 100 years, this venue still is probably the best in the city for sound.  No matter is you are on the ground right by the stage or up in the balcony section, it's still sounds amazing.  Any time a band come comes to town, even if I've seen them many times, I will still make sure I go and see them at the Opera House because you are never disappointed, or at least I've never been.  It's also the perfect size in my opinion, never seems to be to crowded!  All in all this venue is probably my favorite, great sound, great atmosphere and always a great time." -Mark B.

- "Molson Amphitheatre- For normal rock concerts I believe this is a great venue, sound wise. Nothing like a concert by the lake. Reminds me of the old venue, the Ontario Place Forum. I have seen many concerts at the Ampthitheatre, and the sound has always been great. I think the dynamics of the structure itself, the way it is built outward makes the sound really good, especially if your under the canopy. I have not heard negative things from friends that have seen shows in the grass area.

Rogers Centre- This venue is kind of hit and miss. Have seen many shows here over the years. Some shows, the sound is muffled, and some shows there is too much of an echo. And then some other shows, the sound is good. Not spectacular, but good. I think the structure is too big, length wise, so the sound travesl upward, rather than outward toward the crowd. My opinion only on this.

Air Canada Centre- Never had any issues with any of the shows I have seen here. I have seen metal concerts, rock concerts, new age concerts and even classical here. And they all sound great to me. Reminds me of watching great concerts at the old Maple Leaf Gardens. Just not as intimate in a rather large venue, if that makes sense. And anyone that has seen concerts at the old Maple Leaf Gardens should know what I am talking about.

Massey Hall- I have seen many shows here as well, great metal bands like Sabbath, Dio, Maiden, etc. Not a bad sound. I find that if the band really cranks up the amps, the sound gets a bit muffled and you can't hear some instruments. This venue is good for quieter bands, if you know what I mean. Great intimate venue, that has great sound when the music is just right for the right venue.

Roy Thompson Hall- I only saw Jewel here a few times and the sound is remarkable. This venue was built for the accoustics. Great for classical, obviously, but I was happy for Jewel that the sound was amazing. Too bad they don't have more concerts like these there.

Sony Centre for the Performing Arts (the old Hummingbird Centre)- I have seen new age concerts here, like Yanni, and like the Roy Thompson Hall the sound is amazing. It is built for these types of concerts. But I know they have had other heavier bands play there, and I heard the sound was good for those bands as well.

Opera House- For a small venue, the sound is always just right to me. Never too low, never too high. This place reminds me of the old Concert Hall where I saw bands start off like Metallica, Mercyful Fate, Venom, Motorhead, Megadeth etc.

Phoenix Concert Theatre- Some times this place is hit and miss as well. Some times they crank the volume way too loud, and for a relatively small venue (larger though than the Opera House), the sound gets muffled, and you can't hear the vocalist." -Craig M.

"The outside variable is how experienced the touring engineer is and how versatile he is. Some guys can make any room sound awesome some fail. Sometimes the in house tech does a better job mixing openers than the touring guy on the headliners... That aside, a good engineer can make a room sound good with 5 or 500 people in it." -Noel Peters (Intertia Entertainment)

***

I also wanted to get some opinions from guys in the industry as well.  Only having a few moments with my buddies and sound technician(s) Spenser and Ryan, I decided to ask them what the ultimate needs are for a good sound and if the venue plays a part in it.

- "The Opera House.  I attended both a rave and a metal concert.  The venue's architecture plays a valiant role in the sound, including speaker positioning, as well as type of speakers being used." -Ryan C.

- "The biggest factor in good sound is what the band gives me to work with. Good tones and tight playing, with stage volume appropriate for the venue (as little as possible preferably).  If I have those things and a half decent rig to work with I'm happy.  A good crowd helps too.  Soak up all that excess sound. Remember what the River Rock (Chatham Kent, Ontario, Canada) sounds like when it's empty (terrible) vs. when it's at capacity (pretty damn good)." -Spenser H.

You feel you got an opinion and/or comment to leave, then we want to hear it!  This is an open call to people in Toronto (hell, I'll take anywhere in North America) where you feel the venue is the best sounding and why.  Cheers and hope you all start to recognize these variable when going to your next show.